Need a Place to Start

[whitetail]

Greetings, i have some ground in Eastern Kansas that i have hunted for the Last 8 years. its my In-Laws and i want to impliment an QDM plan. Not knowing to much i'd like some advice and/or places to view that will give me information i need to start. what i know to this point is just finding places in travel patterns and creating 1-2 acre food plots, however what i want is to keep the deer on our Place as there are no fences and a few Winter Wheat fields around. i also want to create and maintain a Management process that will Long term make healthier and Bigger deer. thank you in advance for your suggestions.

[JonB]

This is a broad subject and too much to cover in postings, but your in the right area. Look at the rest of this web site and the articles that are posted about deer management. Not knowing what your area looks like it is difficult to say what is needed. If you can find a professional in the area that can assist you may want to employ their expertise. Otherwise you can keep getting pieces of information form here and there until you feel confident that you can develop a plan of action.

Some very basics that you may already know concerning keeping deer in an area are to provide sufficient food and cover. Trying to manipulate the land to increase carrying capacity can be difficult and may not even be needed. I like planting food plots for a couple of reasons. One is an attractant for harvesting does which in effect reduces the population and lets natural vegetation rebound from heavy browsing. Second is it does help to feed the deer and keep them in the area.

By performing soil tests for the type of plants you decide to put out really helps when you follow the suggested lime and fertilizer recommendations. This makes the plants real tasty to the deer and you get the most bang for your buck. (All puns are intended).

Other options you have are to look at studies preformed by Universities and professionals in the field to determine what may be a fit for your property. Also, if you are not a QDMA member and receiving the Quality Whitetails magazine that has many of the latest research findings, then you are missing out. The QDMA also sells many books on the subject as well as videos.

In order to be more help you will need to narrow the question a bit by giving details of the property, surrounding properties, past deer harvests and sightings, overall deer population information, and anything else you may know. Even with this information, without actually looking at the area or the land it will still be difficult to answer questions completely.

[whitetail]

Jon, thanks for the Information. as far as narrowing the QUESTION, that could be difficult. i have 1200 acres. 25% is farmed, the rest is Lightly grazed by Cattle and Horses. they will not be around much longer. the Last three years i have Shot (Bow Only) 3 Bucks, all between 125-158 class, the Largest being 158, he dressed at 275 pounds. of the land, most meaning 65 - 75 % is would be considered excellent cover, with Heavy forrest and thick under brush. we have several creeks running through the property. now i know what this sounds like... what wrong right? well we have a Heavy doe populatuion, sighting of bucks and doe can happen on a daily basis: however they travel and move through. i know where they go and come from, and how they move. i want them to stay. what i see on our ground is a Lack of Browse, and any content of good feed i.e. clover, and high protien food source. my Goal is to keep them, and have them not really need to go across the road to a wheat field, where there is a gun happy neighbor who is not ethical in my mind.

i areials and topos of the ground. i know what i would like, but dont know if what i want is the "Right" thing for the land.

[JonB]

Okay, a lot more information here. First off the areas with the cows and horses will be over browsed and browse will be out of most deer’s reach. Also the cover will likely be depleted, but that doesn’t mean you can’t catch one passing through. I’ve hunted many a piece of property with cattle and shot many deer, but let’s look at the thick cover you do have.

The way I approach a piece of land is to determine where the deer want to feed at (Wheat Field) and where the deer are coming from to get there. Obviously you have this figured out. Competing with the large wheat field is impossible unless you can plant a fifty plus acre soybean field this spring. Instead I like to create, and I think this is what you are looking for, staging areas on my property to hold the deer prior to entering the killing field on the other property.

Concentrate on the cover and travel corridors. Plant a good high protein food plot some 100 plus yards in from the field on the travel corridor leading to the field. Do this on any other trails leading to the field that are passing through your property. What I have found this does, is stop the deer here where it is on their natural route to a main feeding source and is still within cover and it holds them until dark. This will not stop all deer or hold all deer on your property, but deer do like cover and if given a reason to stop and wait until darkness before entering the field then it will help protect a good many, especially the ones that learn the field is dangerous.

Give this; I would not hunt these areas because you will be defeating your intent which I take is to hold deer on your property. Within your property start planting irregular shaped food plots close to cover to help hold the deer as well. These can be hunted, but do not over hunt them. Again, the wheat field will be hard to compete against, but you can start with a few food plots scattered through out your property as well as having good cover to hold the deer.

[Habitat]

If 65 - 75% of your 1200 ac is heavy woods and underbrush, they you definitely have enough cover and large enough area to hold resident deer, not just passing deer. Deer readily accept habitat that is "lightly grazed", but will be deterred from areas that are moderate or heavy grazed. In order to increase the value of the dense woods for deer, consider doing some "browse renovation". This simply means some type of top damage to shrubs, brush, trees, vines in order to stimulate basal sprouting.Such renovation can be done by mowing, shredding, roller chopping, or any mechanical method of damaging or topkilling trees and shrubs. Fire can sometimes be used. The resprouting brush is much more palatable and nutritious and productive. Such renovation should be done in several small areas rather than a few large areas. With observation, you will discover which species of vine, shrub or tree responds best and which species deer prefer. That will give you the info you need to target your renovation to more specific areas. Also, this canopy reduction will allow more sunlight to reach the ground for growing desirable weeds and forbs. Planting some summer and or winter legume food plots combined with wheat should also help keep deer stay close and not stray so much to neighbors wheat field. Deer would rather feed on smaller plots surrounded by cover than go out into a naked large open field. Also might try to experiment with various formulations of fertilizer on your food plots. Deer can tell the difference between unfertilized wheat and fertilized wheat. Just some thoughts on what seems to work down here (tx)

[NorthJeff]

Your cattle can be devestating to a property and can greatly displace deer, especially bedding areas. I can't add much to what has been already said, other than you should set your goal to LET the deer get to that wheat field, because that is a very predictable travel pattern you can take advantage of, but just make sure it as close to "after dark" as possible. You can do this by doing everything you can read about here, or learn from other sources, to create the best habitat on your land as possible. Give those deer a reason to stick around for a while. Sounds like you have great cover(if the cattle leave), water, and a great destination food source nearby, you just need to "tweak" it a little bit with a strong habitat management plan, to encourage increased visitation time on your property during daylight hours.

It also sounds to me like you may have too many big bucks running around in the area.....let me know if you need help with that "problem".smileys/smiley2.gif

[Chad Dauthier]

There is always the option of going in with a chain saw, cutting about 3-200 acre stands of trees to the ground, and sitting back and enjoying. This is what I favor. smileys/smiley4.gif

[Thayer.qdma]

With 1200 acres, I would try to get a generous field(lots of acres) full of summer legumes, and another full of winter carbos. I would try to place them as far away from the wheat field as possible, don't really know about the other neighbors. A prescribed burn might be in order to return a lot of browse to your woodlands. How's your acorns? Could you start a grove of fruit trees? Also, with 1200 acres I would get some kind of QDMA group in there, led by you, to help with the work and the cost, and yes I am volunteering to help(join).smileys/smiley2.gif

[BMason]

Don't be too quick to pull out the cows. You stated that a significant part of the area is "lightly grazed" by cattle and horses". Cattle seem to be getting a bad rap by some of the posters here. I don't know what their experiences have been with them. I have seen some places that have been severely overgrazed by cattle in the past. This is not an inherent characteristic of cattle though. They're about like most living things, they have to eat too. You run into problems when the person responsible for managing them over stocks the land. Light to moderate grazing pressure can be very beneficial to a variety of different types of wildlife including deer, quail, turkeys, rabbits . . . . . . .It brings with it soil disturbance which in turn stimulates forbs to grow, providing a more diverse food base. It can also help keep an area from becoming too thick which can be helpful in maintaining or improving your deer harvest.

[Thayer.qdma]

I don't think I've given the cattle a bad rap yet, I do think that competition would hurt the deer herd. Forget about food plots if cattle can get to them and all those forbs that they are creating are probably going to be eaten by the cattle. If it was my place I would lose the cattle, time, medications, fencing, and all the other responsibilities that go along with them and manage for deer if I could afford it.

[Chad Dauthier]

nearly every cattle field I have ever seen has problems with compaction. However, once they leave, I have seen areas that soil tests have come back 100% right on the money for planting.

[whitetail]

thanks for the Responses, the Cattle and horses only graze a section (440 ac) and the rest is free of Food Animals. HOWEVER i have seen some of the Biggest deer in that section, problem is you cant hardly walk in without moving cattle 1 or 2 will be in the way. i do like the idea of a burn, to me that would be most beneficial, i dont think its been burned ever!. the acorn population isnt bad, in spots, we do have lots of pecans, (Turkeys like them). we do not have a qdma branch in Kansas. i stilll would like to join.

have to run now, will respond later.

ohh, the deer are BIGGER in Mi, Kansas bucks are tiny!!

[whitetail]

i think we are going to try to do a Controlled burn in a little area and then plant several 1-2 acres plots, using Corn, Beans and Alfalpha (spl chk). place them in areas where we want to see the results and not have the Cattle eat it down before it has a chance to grow. thank you all for great advice.