no till drilling help

[critter]

Anyone have experience using one of the small (6 ft)no till drills that are available for planting behind a tractor? Ex Kasco Versa or Eco Drill, Great Plains models. Many articles and postings in this forum mention drilling but no specific information on limitations or special considerations. I'm looking for efficiency and a job done right. Questions in particular: will these drills accomodate small seeds (clover) and the shallow (1/4") planting they require and what preparation needs to be done to the seedbed for best results on "new ground"? Manufacturers of these drills make it sound like all you have to do is spray and plant but I am skeptical and want to know I'm making a good investment. Thanks.

[Mossyoak]

I am not sure about the particular drills that you stated above but I know that we have no tilled on the farm and it does take a little bit more than what you made it sound like. The spraying is a big part, and depending on what the land is before you do the spraying, it may need some prep work done, like cleaning out sticks, trees, briar bushes, and so on, depending on the area. You most likely will also need fertilizer and/or lime on the ground. Most of the no tilling that we do is on last years bean fields, and put corn in this year, or vice versa. I'm not real sure how it would work on ground that is grown up and what not, and I am curious also to hear if someone else has done it.

Kevin

[critter]

First -Thanks for the reply Mossyoak
Since I posted this a couple of days ago I have been to implement dealers and on the phone asking questions with the drill manufacturers (particularly Kasco-very helpful by the way, talked with Phil) and actually got a lot of solid information. The main reason why my partner and I are looking so closely at a no till drill is to increase efficiency. Areas we wish to plant are geograghically scattered and poise a time and GAS problem. Plus I have a close friend who runs a large cash crop farming operation and he advised us to look into a no till drill in the first place but didn't know much about it's application with clovers and such. Also he works with a big drill and thought that the weight alone of these "food plot drills" would pose questions as to their ability to drill undisked( at least recent) ground. I guess I should have entered a post more like ...if you could pick, which would be the mostefficient process to prepare new food plots and which tools would be necessary keeping in mind each trip is time and money. (Aside from the obvious liming and fertizing) Kinda like the ultimate Christmas list for a beginning food plotter. Also a point to consider: I'd like to plant anything and everything. Any thoughts?

[MNQDMer]

Good question.

I would also be interested in hearing of anyones experience with no till drills. I understand they can plant into corn, soybean, and wheat stuble.

I will be watching for responses on this one.

[JamieL]

Critter as far as experience with the Kasco drills Id say Ive got more than anyone else at this point in time. Atleast thats what the guys at Kasco would lead me to believe. I'm a landscaper/land manager and I use my drill for everything. The drill I've been using is the versa-drill which can be pulled behind a four wheeler. Its a four foot drill and can also be used on a three pt. hitch behind a tractor. Last spring I used the drill to plant several acres of corn, soybeans, oats,clover, brassicas and used it to over seed existing lawns.I also used the drill to plant some unestablished 2-3 acre lawns.

If you would like to see some examples of the food plots I planted with the Kasco drill check out my website at
NewAgeWhitetails.com.If you've got any other questions feel free to drop me a line.

[critter]

JaimieL Thank you for your reply. The Versa Drill is the exact drill I'm looking into and I hoped I'd hear from someone-dismissed some of the other ones out there for various reasons. Would you recommend getting the extra legume box? How well do the commercial mixes (Biologic, etc) run through the standard box when you have a seed size varience? Would you recommend an agitator as an option? What kind of machinery do you use to prep new ground so that you have an adequate seed bed for the drill to work with?( Example sod, hard compacted soils) What kind of differences in performance ( if any) do you feel a guy would find between the 3pt and the pull behind? I'm sure I will take you up on dropping you a line soon. Thanks again for the help, response, etc.

[Justwin24]

What's the average cost of the 4 foot drill?

[JamieL]

Critter sorry for the delay. Obviously the reason for the extra seed box is for planting different sized seeds at the same time. The drill I've been using has only one seed box, but the one Im getting ready to order will definitely have two and will be the 6' version. What will you be using the drill to plant and how many acres? The extra seed box would come in handy to plant a mix of sunflowers and sorghum or buckwheat and soybeans etc.. I plan on trying something a little different this spring and running three rows of roundup ready corn and a row of RR soybeans in between the corn rows. For legumes I prefer to use a tiller to prepare the soil and use the drill to firm up and smooth the seed bed. Next I broadcast the seed and run over it one more time with the drill to press the seed firmly into the soil. I have also had good success drilling in a clover blend into sod after a couple applications of round-up. The drill also works well for over seeding thin stands of grass or legumes.
Most of the corn and beans that I have planted I simply no till drilled between existing corn stocks from the previous year and both turned out great as you can see in the pics on the my website. The biggest difference you will see in the pull behind and three pt. will be the speed of planting as the three pt. is obviously faster. The pull behind is a little heavier also but I dont think the difference would matter much at all. This drill is very well built and just glides over rocks, tree roots and stumps.

The retail on a 4' versa-drill starts at $3,495 and up depending on the number of drops, 3pt. or pull type with electric lift and other options available.

[critter]

JamieL -your reply convinces me that the extra box is worth the investment as I will be planting combinations such as you desribed. I take it that you use the drill as a cultipacker and not so much as a planter in regards to legumes unless your overseeding. Is this correct? By the way we plan to plant all the above mentioned with the addition of brassicas, wheat and really anything that hear good about. We care mostly about whitetail plantings but we have a landowner that wants us to plant for pheasants. So that's why I probe for the drill's versatility. You mention a tiller-is this a pull behind pto version? If so how deep can you turn and how much hard compacted soil abuse can it take?

[fshafly2]

JamieL
- thanks for posting the info! It's got me thinking. Do you know how much (tractor) horsepower is recommended for pulling the 6 foot drill with the three point hitch? (Did not see this on the Kasco website).
-fsh

[JamieL]

For Legumes I plant both ways with the drill and broadcasting. For smaller plots its very convenient to go in with the drill and just drop it in without having to take the time to till. In dry hard packed conditions its always better to till which will help take advantage of the soil moisture that may be 4-5" below the surface. The tiller I use is pto driven on the back of my tractor and I can till about 6-7 inches. I have the tiller set up to float so if I hit big rocks the tines just bounce the tiller up and over with out doing any damage. The harder the soil the slower you must till to get the best results.

fshafly2 The recommended horse power rating for the 6' drill is 35 to 40 horse.Also the tractor should have a bucket or some type of weight in the front and have enough 3pt. lift capability to lift 1500lbs. or so. Send me an email or give me a call for any other info.

[critter]

thanks for all the help JamieL

[tobryan]

Great thread guys, thanks for the info.
I sent a pm to kasco.

[FurandFeather]

Critter:

I have not been on the site for a while. No Till Drills are a wonderful invention. There are all types of things you can do with/to them to plant all types of seeds. We use a TYE three box drill (10 ft) for everything we do, including natvie warm season grasses.

I just got back from our farm after working it for a week to get a field's treeling edge pruned up above 10 ft to get all of our equipment up next to so that we can drill come May.

I wanted to ask you how much do you expect to use this drill? At most, we would use ours for 30 acres a year, which runs us a little over $200 for rental. I do not know about Kosco? but am familiar with Great Plans (one of the most relieable drills) and TYE (another reliable brand).

The reason I ask, is that I know that a drill of the type you are talking about is over $10,000 for a better brand. At that rate, we would have to use the drill we rent for over 50 years to make a difference to us. Also, drills have a lot of moving parts which means more things will break. Between hoses, agitators, wheels, springs, gears, chains, hoppers, coulters, etc, etc, etc, the things are going to break a lot. Moreover, if your land is rocky or upland hanitat, it is going to break more than you may think. With that in mind, it may be easier to rent a drill from your local ag co-op than to outright buy a piece of equipment you will most likely not be able to claim on your ag forms if you are doing habitat improvement. Even more, if you are getting some program invovled in your habitat care, you may be able to be reimbursed for most of your rental costs, making access to a drill practically free.

Not trying to talk you out of anything, but just passing along what we found after looking seriously into buying a good drill.

Happy hunting.

[critter]

Thanks for the input Furandfeather-you provided some great input for us. The cost of the drill was the reason for the initial inquiry and we appreciate the realistic response.

[genburr]

Read all the above with great interest as I just got into no-til drilling last season. Really impressed with my 6' 3 pt Great Plains drill with small seed box. It takes a 50 hp Kubota with front end loader for front weight but can get over some pretty steep hills and water breaks.Would not like to try this with less tractor. I think the drill weighs 2400# or so empty. It is a SOLID piece of equipment.

Clovers came up great this fall along with wheat, oats and rape mix. Clover is coming on strong at this time.
Also planted Lab Lab along with brown top millet and sunflower for cover last May. Also planted a couple one acre plots of chufas in about 30 min. each. I got into no-til after thinking about getting a cultipacker for better stands but was already short of time with all the bush hogging and disking, did not want to make two more passes with cultipacker.
I started a little late last spring with the herbicide (roundup),using 3 pt hitch pto pump 55 gallon with 12' boom.Plan to get a quicker start this spring. Where roundup worked best there are still very distinct rows of wheat and clover right now with bare ground in between so all soil nutrients going into edible plants.
One question I had has to do with top dressing of fertilizer, esp P & K as they are not as mobile in soil as N.I spread triple 17 after drilling and the fileds looked good but still wonder how much fertilizer may be lost.
Would like to hear more about good herbicide practices. Thanks much.